Interview : Simon Phillips
2001
SIMON PHILLIPS - Une vie de batteur !

De Jeff Beck à Al Di Meola, de Robert Palmer à Mick Jagger, des Who à Toto, dont il devient membre à part entière après le décès de Jeff Porcaro, le batteur anglais Simon Phillips a joué avec les plus grands. Après vingt ans de carrière, dont il a retiré une certaine philosophie et un recul à toute épreuve, Simon conserve une véritable passion pour le son dans tous ses aspects, aisément perceptible à l'écoute de son son dernier album solo, "Another lifetime"... Franck Ernould
Simon Phillips n'a que douze ans lorsqu'il démarre comme batteur dans l'orchestre de jazz Dixieland qu'anime son père. Concerts et séances d'enregistrement - pour la BBC ou des albums - s'accumulent. Quatre années plus tard, à la mort de son père, Simon dissout le groupe. Peu après, en 1973, il auditionne pour la comédie musicale "Jésus-Christ superstar" et s'y fait remarquer. Du coup, les séances de maquettes se multiplient. Simon les honore toutes et, bouche à oreille aidant, passe à la vitesse supérieure : celle des "vrais" studio, 24 pistes. Agé de seulement dix-sept ans, il écume Trident, CTI, EMI, Maison Rouge, Mayfair, IBC, Air Studios..., au rythme de deux ou trois séances par jour. La première terminée, son assistant démonte la batterie pour la remonter dans un autre studio, en vue de la troisième, tandis que Simon, quelque part dans Londres, assure la deuxième avec une seconde batterie !
Un autre aspect vient s'ajouter aux talents de musicien de Simon : sa passion pour l'électronique. Ses parents possèdent une chaîne hifi haut de gamme et, parallèlement à ses débuts de batteur, il leur bricole un patch réalisé uniquement à base d'inverseurs, sans un seul centimètre de câble ! Il s'enregistre déjà à la batterie, en stéréo, sur le magnétophone familial. Ces connaissances techniques lui sont de la plus grande utilité en studio, où il s'intéresse à tous les aspects de l'enregistrement, des deux côtés de la vitre.


Quel sont les premiers artistes internationaux avec qui tu as collaboré, en studio ou sur scène ?
Robert Palmer, en 1974, pour son premier album solo, "Sneakin' Sally thru the alley", puis Phil Manzanera, en solo lui aussi, pour "Diamond head" en 1975 et "801" en 1976. A l'époque, j'ai même joué sur un album de Véronique Sanson, que j'ai accompagnée à l'Olympia. Je me rappelle aussi avoir été sur scène avec Michel Berger, de passage à Londres.
Ensuite, j'ai travaillé avec Jack Bruce - en studio pour deux albums, sur scène pour une tournée à travers les Etats-Unis et l'Europe -, avec Jeff Beck sur l'album "Wired", produit par George Martin, avec Stanley Clarke, avec Mick Jagger...


Avais-tu déjà ces énormes batteries pour lesquelles tu es célèbre ?
J'ai commencé à jouer en concert avec deux grosses caisses dès 1974. En 1976, sur "Wired", j'ai utilisé neuf toms ! Trois ans plus tard, comme Billy Cobham et Stewart Copeland, je me suis servi d'octobans, avec des gongs et différentes cymbales.


Tu n'es jamais passé aux sonorités électroniques ?
En tant que batteur de séances, il m'a bien fallu jouer un peu de Syndrums - les fameuses Simmons -, en particulier sur un album de Stanley Clarke. Mais je trouvais ça tellement horrible que j'ai vite arrêté. Un choix difficile : dans presque tous les disques du début des années quatre-vingt, on entend ces batteries !


Beaucoup de délais, par contre...
Ils font partie de mon son depuis 1976. A l'époque, j'avais un Roland Space Echo dans lequel j'envoyais toute la batterie pour lui donner plus d'espace. En 1980, je suis passé aux délais numériques : bien plus intéressants que tous ces sons électroniques...


D'un studio à l'autre, les exigences des ingénieurs différaient-elles beacoup ?
Pour le moins ! Mais je ne tenais généralement aucun compte de leurs remarques. J'ai toujours réglé et accordé ma batterie à ma façon : ça passait ou ça cassait... Je me souviens d'une série de séances où chaque fois, pour que ma batterie résonne moins, l'ingénieur du studio où j'arrivais me faisait mettre du scotch sur les peaux, même s'il en restait de la séance précédente. Au bout de quelques jours, il y en avait des couches et des couches : le son était minable... J'ai fini par en avoir assez, et dès qu'une séance était terminée, j'enlevais le scotch pour arriver sans à la suivante.
Au début, les studios m'ont beaucoup fait douter. Dans certains, on me disait "Tes toms sonnent super-bien, c'est génial... Comment fais-tu ?", et dans d'autres "Oh là là, ça résonne !". J'ai fini par considérer que c'était moi qui étais dans le vrai, par ne plus me poser de questions. Je répondais aux ingénieurs "Vraiment ? Mes toms résonnent ? Mais c'est ainsi que je les aime, j'ai passé des années à trouver ce son..." et je ne touchais à rien !
J'ai commencé à bâtir une réputation d'anarchiste. Les autres musiciens de séance se faisaient une joie de jouer avec moi rien qu'à l'idée qu'il y aurait du spectacle...


Par exemple ?
Dès qu'un ingénieur trouvait que le son n'était pas terrible, je répondais "Ah bon ? Quel dommage pour toi !". Mais mon coup favori, quand l'un deux me demandait de baisser un peu ma caisse claire - une pratique très à la mode -, c'était de faire semblant. Je prenais ma clé et me mettais à racler le fût, ce qui produisait un bruit identique à celui que j'aurais fait en modifiant son accord. Après quoi je frappais quelques coups et invariablement, l'ingénieur me disait "Super, c'est carrément autre chose. Fantastique !".
Ca marchait presque à tous les coups... Ces réactions déplaisaient, bien sûr, mais en un sens, elles m'ont aidé à me focaliser sur les studios et les projets auxquels je tenais vraiment. Parallèlement, je me suis demandé pourquoi, avec la même batterie, une fois enregistré, le son était si bon dans un studio et si mauvais dans un autre... C'est alors que j'ai décidé de m'intéresser aux micros : j'apprenais les références par cÏur, je demandais aux ingénieurs eu qui j'avais confiance pourquoi ils prenaient tel modèle plutôt que tel autre... Au bout de quelques mois,j'arrivais à reconnaître pratiquement n'importe quel micro ! Je savais par expérience qu'un AKG D224 - très répandu en Angleterre dans les années soixante-dix - se mariait mal avec mon son de caisse claire, par exemple, alors qu'un Shure SM57, un AKG C414, ou un Neumann KM56 sonnait dix fois mieux ! J'en parlais à l'ingénieur qui, le plus souvent, tombait d'accord avec moi !


Pourtant, il n'y a pas que le micro qui "fasse" un son...
Je me suis effectivement rendu compte que la console, elle aussi, avait son importance... Là encore, j'ai appris à force d'expérience. Sans compter qu'au cours des années soixante-dix, la mode était aux petits studios, avec des cabines batterie généralement minuscules... Souvent, je demandais à enregistrer dans le studio lui-même, pour bénéficier d'un plus grand volume. Mais à cette époque, l'acoustique brillante n'était guère en vogue ! Heureusement qu'à la fin de cette décennie, on a retrouvé le plaisir des studios "vivants", qui confèrent au son une telle ampleur que les possibilités d'accord sont plus étendues.


Au point qu'on est tombé dans l'excès inverse, celui des batteries énormes...
En à peine dix ans, on est passé d'un son hyper-sec, avec des noise gates partout pour couper toute résonance lorsqu'un fût n'était pas frappé, à un son hyper-réverbéré, à grand renfort de micros. C'est ce que j'appelle le son Power Station : du bruit avec un impact ! Il semblerait qu'aujourd'hui, on soit revenu à plus de sagesse. Dans mon dernier album solo, "Another lifetime", j'ai essayé de respecter au maximum le son de ma batterie - réglée comme au début des années quatre-vingt - tel qu'il est.


Sur scène, ta "couleur" est-elle la même qu'en studio ?
Je joue exactement pareil, avec des micros identiques, exception faite des "overheads". Quand j'enregistre, j'utilise des AKG C12A, trop chers pour les emmener en tournée (environ vingt mille francs pièce, ndlr), ou à défaut, des 460, 451, des Neumann KM84, voire des U67. J'ai l'habitude de prendre un Shure Beta 52 modifié pour la grosse caisse, des SM57 pour la caisse claire et les octobans, des SM98A pour les sept toms et la caisse claire piccolo, un SM91 pour le gong, muni d'un adaptateur spécial, des Shure SM81 pour le charley, les "overheads", et pour les ambiances, soit un MS Shure VP88, soit des Neumann U87, U67, ou TLM170..., selon ce que j'ai sous la main !
En studio, on travaille sur un titre à la fois. Je peux donc changer ma peau quand je veux - toujours d'un morceau à l'autre, en tout cas. Voilà la différence essentielle ! Sur scène, il est évidemment impossible de modifier l'accord de la caisse claire, d'en prendre une autre, ou de remplacer la peau quand elle commence à s'user.


As-tu des recettes particulières pour égaliser ta batterie ?
Tout dépend du contexte. Ceci dit, le son s'élabore plus en enlevant des fréquences qu'en en rajoutant ! Il faut être très prudent lorsqu'au mixage, on est confronté à un problème de son : qu'est-ce qui ne va pas ? Est-ce vraiment le son de la batterie ou celui d'un autre instrument ?
Je me suis aperçu qu'il est souvent très difficile de mixer une guitare acoustique et une caisse claire. Une fois le son de guitare bien réussi, la caisse claire a du mal à se faire entendre... C'est une histoire de compromis : à l'ingénieur d'enlever un petit peu ici, pour le remettre là, sans faire perdre de leur caractère aux instruments... C'est un art !


Et pour les compresseurs, les réverbérations ?
Si je joue sur le disque d'un autre, je laisse toute lattitude au producteur de l'album. J'avais pris l'habitude d'enregistrer avec une réverbération témoin dans le casque, mais je l'ai supprimée voici plusieurs années. Désormais, j'enregistre avec un son complètement sec. En mettant une réverbération agrémentée d'un long prédélai - 80 à 120 ms, comme je les aime -, on a tendance à se laisser aller, à jouer avec. Dès qu'on l'enlève, le son devient tout de suite plus ingrat. Mais si l'on parvient, à force de discipline, à faire ressentir le groove sans avoir besoin de prédélai, il sera encore mieux perçu quand on rajoutera de la réverb au mixage ! Sur mes propres disques, j'ai tendance à préférer un son pur et assez sec, sans noyer le mixage dans des tonnes de réverbération. Nous en mettons bien sûr, mais très peu. Cela permet également de doser bien plus finement la part d'ambiance captée à l'enregistrement.


Arrives-tu à combiner le travail avec Toto, les séances et tes albums solo ?
J'avoue avoir levé le pied sur les séances... Tout a changé du jour où je me suis retrouvé membre à part entière de Toto : un travail régulier de composition, de répétitions, de studio, de concerts, une maison de disques, une organisation sans faille... et de grandes plages de temps libre dont je profite pour monter des projets solo, tourner, enregistrer avec des amis musiciens...


Parlons justement d'"Another Lifetime", ton second album solo...
Depuis que je me suis installé aux Etats-Unis, fin 1992, je n'ai pas arrêté une seule journée : Toto, des classes de batterie, des séances, Pete Townsend, les Who, mon groupe, "Protokol", qui a sorti deux albums, Los Lobotomys (formation Américaine, ndlr)... Début 1995, j'étais dans un état proche de l'épuisement. Je me suis reposé un peu, mais Toto a enregistré "Tambu", pris du retard, et il a fallu partir en tournée en plein milieu des séances. Je me suis débrouillé comme j'ai pu pour intercaler mon premier album solo, "Symbiosis". J'allais des studios Capitol pour Toto, à A&M pour moi. Résultat : fin 1995, je suis entré à l'hôpital, quelques semaines avant la tournée européenne de "Tambu". Toto est donc parti sans moi. J'étais en convalescence dans ma maison de Los Angeles, où j'ai composé les morceaux qu'on retrouve sur "Another lifetime". J'ai beaucoup travaillé avec Ray Russell, le guitariste de l'album.


Tu possèdes donc un home studio ?
Naturellement... Déjà en Angleterre, en 1986, j'étais équipé en 24 pistes. Arrivé Etats-Unis, pendant un mois, j'ai monté et à câblé le home studio de Mike Porcaro. Il avait acheté tous les appareils, mais sans rien assembler proprement ! Dans un premier temps, je me suis arrangé avec lui pour utiliser cet endroit quand il n'en avait pas besoin. Voici un peu plus d'un an, j'ai investi dans un home studio personnel : DA-88, DA-38, DAT Tascam D-20, Tascam M-2600 MkII 32 voies...


T'es-tu offert une cabine batterie ?
Non, elle est montée dans la chambre d'amis. Quand des invités ronflent ou toussent pendant la nuit, sa résonance les réveille ! Cette chambre dispose d'un panneau de 20 XLR pour les micros, de deux retours casque et d'une prise pour brancher la télécommande d'un des huit pistes Tascam.


Es-tu équipé en informatique musicale ?
Je fais tourner Vision sur mon vieux Mac Quadra 630. Il pilote quelques générateurs de son et un échantillonneur Roland S-770. Généralement, je réalise des maquettes complètes de tous les titres, avec basses et guitares séquencées. Une fois en studio, je recommence tout en me référant sans cesse à ces bases pour le groove, des détails d'arrangement, d'ambiance... Elles permettent aux musiciens invités sur l'album de se caler, de travailler leurs solos...


Sur "Another lifetime", tu as travaillé avec Elliot Scheiner et Ray Russell, respectivement ingénieur du son et producteur de Toto...
Je tenais à collaborer avec eux : ils me connaissent vraiment bien. Alors que "Symbiosis" avait été enregistré sur Sony 3348, j'ai décidé de repasser en analogique ! A Los Angeles, les 3348 sont assez rares. Ils tournent plutôt en location, ce qui revient assez cher. Nous avons enregistré l'album aux studios Westlake sur leurs deux vingt-quatre pistes analogiques. Louer un quarante-huit numérique aurait augmenté la facture. J'en ai parlé à Elliot, qui m'a répondu "Pas de problème, on va tout faire en analogique !". Ma maison de disques, Lipstick, était plutôt pour aussi. Le premier jour des séances, je me suis aperçu quedepuis toutes ces années, j'avais complètement oublié comment sonnait une batterie enregistrée en analogique. J'adore ça, même si la facilité d'exploitation est incomparablement plus grande en numérique...
Enregistré sur 3348, "Tambu" avait été mixé en 1/2" analogique, et déjà à l'époque, j'avais redécouvert ce son avec plaisir, notamment les relations de phase qui élargissent un peu la stéréo...


T'es-tu livré à quelques expériences, comme sur "Baby he's your man", un titre de "Tambu" ?
C'était une idée de David Paich (clavier de Toto, ndlr) ! Il m'avait suggéré d'enregistrer le rythme de base en me calant sur une séquence, puis de refaire une prise en accélérant la bande, pour ne garder que la grosse caisse, et d'en faire une troisème en la ralentissant, pour ne garder cette fois que la caisse claire. Au final : une batterie "normale" avec une grosse caisse très grave et une caisse claire très aiguë. Mais ce n'estpas tout ! Nous avons sélectionné les mesures qui sonnaient le mieux pour les mettre en boucle et les panoramiquer à gauche. À droite, j'ai joué d'un MIDI DrumKat, et au centre, j'ai encore rajouté une "vraie" quatrième batterie. Nous y avons passé des jours, mais le jeu en valait la chandelle !
Sur mon album solo, je n'ai rien fait de tel. Pas de loops : c'est moi qui joue tout. La production était au service des musiciens et de leur talent. Les sons ont été soigneusement choisis, travaillés, au cours des trois jours de répétitions. Nous avions joué ensemble sur scène, mais aucun morceau de l'album ! Il nous a fallu cinq jours pour les prises principales, trois pour les overdubs et cinq pour le mixage.


Quelle efficacité !
Ne m'en parle pas ! Je rêve qu'un jour, j'aurais un mois pour enregistrer un album et les week-ends pour me reposer...


Quel est ton studio américain favori ?
J'adore la cabine de Capitol, mais moins le studio. A&M est un peu "froid", et la console ne me plait qu'à moitié... Finalement, c'est encore Westlake que je préfère : un beau volume, pas trop réverbérant, assez chaud, une bonne console... Le top, pour moi, c'est Ocean Way, chez Allen Sides ! Lui sait vraiment ce qu'il fait, et c'est un fan de l'analogique... Voilà mon classement, mais tout dépend bien sûr du projet ! Pour certains, Record Plant sonne de façon extraordinaire.


Une ou deux anecdotes, pour finir ?
En voici une, typique des années soixante-dix. La séance se passe à Olympic Studios, nous sommes nombreux : batterie, basse, trois guitares acoustiques, piano, trois percussionnistes africains. L'ingénieur commence par mettre les guitares devant ma batterie ! Je le préviens qu'avec le bruit que je vais faire, c'est le dernier endroit où les placer. Il en convient, et les expédie dans une cabine à part. Après cela, le producteur décide de nous faire jouer au click - un métronome mécanique en ces temps reculés... Il le pose au beau milieu du studio, sans rien pour l'isoler. L'ingénieur le repique avec un D12 - choix pour le moins étrange - et nous l'envoie au casque... Nous commençons donc à jouer le morceau, et voilà le métronome, dont le ressort avait sans doute vécu, qui se met à ralentir ! Je ralentis donc à mon tour, les autres musiciens me suivent et nous finissons par tous nous arrêter, au grand dam du producteur, qui se met à crier "Mais qu'est-ce qui se passe, pourquoi vous arrêtez-vous ?". Ce à quoi je lui réponds, très calme "Je n'entends plus le click, voilà tout !" C'était tellement stupide : même à l'époque, il suffisait d'enregistrer un pattern au shaker, de le mettre en boucle, de le copier sur la bande et de l'envoyer aux musiciens, qui réagissent bien mieux à ce style de repère...


Sur scène, avec Toto, joues-tu au click ?
Jamais, tout est live et humain ! Je suis connu pour réaliser moi-même la balance de mon retour stéréo : j'ai une console à côté de moi, et je gère mes écoutes tout seul.
Autre anecdote, beaucoup moins drôle : un soir de 1995, sur scène avec Toto, toute une partie de l'éclairage de scène s'est détachée et nous est tombée dessus, en faisant du bruit au point de nous couvrir pendant quelques secondes. C'est un miracle qu'aucun de nous n'ait été blessé ou tué, mais ce qui arrivait était tellement énorme que personne ne s'est arrêté, n'a manqué un temps. Nous nous sommes regardés, stupéfaits, sans vraiment réaliser ce qui venait de se passer... Nous n'avons eu peur qu'après coup, une fois la chanson terminée !

Source: HOME STUDIO
2001




How did you get the idea of making a jazz record?
Simon: When I first met Jeff in '96 he gave me his solo album which was an acoustic straight-ahead thing. I thought "wow", obviously the piano was very close to his heart. A couple of years later I wanted to do something in that style and from a production point of view I was interested in the sound of acoustic instruments and also playing something different to what I had played before. So I approached Jeff and said "You fancy doing a straight ahead thing?" He said "Yeah, sure." And we got together and started writing music. The only way I really wanted to do it was to write original compositions.
Jeff: I think it really started with a gig, we wanted to do a gig.
Simon: Yes, that's right


So it was your plan from the start to have Jeff collaborate with you on this project?
Simon: Oh yeah.


"Vantage Point" was inspired by the more progressive sound of 70's jazz artists. Why did you choose this particular approach and not "traditional jazz" for example?
Simon: That to me is the only kind of jazz that makes sense to me. The only kind of jazz that I love playing. I love the Miles Davis Quintet, Herbie Hancock, V.S.O.P. Being more from the rock'n' roll thing that made sense to me. I grew up with my Dad's music which was incredibly polite, safe, and I wasn't into that.
Jeff: We're playing traditional music with energy. And that's what a lot of guys were doing in the seventies. When I think of any artist in the seventies it's that energy. Rock'n'roll wouldn't sound the same in the fifties, that didn't exist.
Simon: Absolutely, yeah.


Was the writing process for this album different from the way you've worked on your "electric" albums?
Simon: Oh yeah, very much. For a start, I've never written this kind of music before. The music I had written had been very polyphonic with both the guitar and playing chords at times. I've never written for instrumentation that only had the possibility of thirteen notes maximum - piano (10 notes) then three more notes (sax, trumpet and bass). I was really curious how that would work with my style of writing. First I had to make sure that I knew the range of each instrument and then that I was writing in the right register for each instrument. And then, how am I going to deal with the harmony? Jeff grew up writing that stuff. But to me it was very new. I just sort of threw myself into it, and when I started it was confusing to say the least, but then I said okay, let's work with it. And I remember how my Dad used to work. He would use the piano to make the horn section sound bigger. He used the bass as part of the chord perhaps. Even the drums. There's a section in "Bewilderment" where I'm using the tom-toms, it's almost like it could be a trombone section. It's actually tom-tom, bass and left-hand of the piano. I guess I was aware of that, I just didn't have the know-how how to do it. "Bewilderment" was a song we wrote together, but separately. He would come to my house listen to what I had so far - come up with another part, leave, and I would work on the next section. The next time he came around I would play him what I had done - and so on until the song was finished. In the end it worked out great.


So the songs you've written together you haven't actually written together in the same room at the same time?
Simon: "Sting Like A Bee", that was amazing, that was something that I hadn't had time to work out, so I actually sang it to him. "This is my idea", and then Jeff said "Okay, great" and he came up with the next bit.
Jeff: "Doubletake" we wrote together.


Did you modify your drum kit for this album? If so, what changes did you make?
Simon: As you have seen I have a smaller kit. Single bass drum. I had Tama make me an old-fashioned size bass drum, like the bass drums you bought in the 60s and 70s. Everybody makes it slightly deeper now. The shallower shell lets the front head react quicker. I went back to using floor tom-toms, just like in the 50s, 60s and 70s. And I even used different heads to change the sound a little bit. One of the bigger problems for me was the volume aspect. I've been so used to playing at a certain level for so many years playing with electric bass and guitar. Now there's an upright bass and a piano, and I was just way over the top, volumewise. So I had to change the way the kit worked. I even used different sticks, they're much lighter. And the way of playing, I had to learn how to ease off the kick drum. And still, every night is a learning experience for me. So the kit is very different, the cymbals are very different. And this set of cymbals I'm using I brought from the States with me because playing this kind of music the cymbals are very very important. It took a while to figure out which cymbals would work best with the instrumentation. One has to be careful not to overpower the other instruments.


On the album sleeve it says that the album was recorded in one day. Can you tell us a little about this session? How did it work?
Simon: It was a traditional jazz session, really.
Dave: It was the only day we could get everybody together, I think.
Jeff: Right, I had a TV show the day of the session, I had no idea how I was going to fit it in. We were going to do two days but then we went with one.
Simon: That's right, it was a bit rough getting everybody there.
Jeff: It's amazing we're getting everybody here for ten days.
Simon: It is so great to have the same band playing this tour. That's how records were made in those days. When I made records with my Dad we would do a record in two sessions. That includes rehearsing. We used to do broadcasts in three hours. That was an hour and 15 minutes of rehearsal, a 15 minute break, and the rest of the time to record 12 songs usually all in one take, maybe two takes on the first song. That's how it was.


How was it with this album? Did you rehearse one song and then record it, then did the next one or how did it work?
Simon: I wanted to do this from a production point of view, so I thought very long and hard "How are we going to record this music? How am I going to get the best performances out of everyone?" We're playing music that is essentially live music, it's very hard to put this in the studio and get the same result. So we actually set up a live gig two days before and I recorded that show. I wanted to capture that night and also get everybody used to the fact that we're recording everything. If you record every show like I did with the "Symbiosis" tour, you forget that a tape machine is running and just get on with playing the music. Two days later, after a setup day, everybody came in to the studio and we played. We had the benefit of playing a live gig, which to me is worth 5 or 6 rehearsals, so everybody got a feel for how the band sounded, and then we did the record.


So you didn't really rehearse the stuff, you had this one gig and then it was already the recording session?
Simon: We did a little rehearsal for the first gig. You know, we didn't rehearse for this tour! We just came over and did a long soundcheck the other day and played. As soon as you play the head and you know the arrangement, the rest we'll play without any rehearsal. It is jazz after all, and it's great combination of people and we are all listening to each other.


So what is on the record is also kind of improvisation?
Simon: It's jazz.
Dave: But it's a better environment to improvise when you're in the studio. Sometimes the sound problems live make it more difficult. Not any less enjoyable, but...
Simon: When musicians play in front of an audience they play so much better. And especially when there's a beautiful girl out there they play so much better. The other thing is that you can't stop so you play through any problems or whatever. And shit happens. Tonight I totally blew it. What did I do? "One of a kind", I totally went to the wrong section. I was actually playing the end of the song. That was great. You know, these little mistakes happen.


So the day in the studio was basically like a live recording...
Simon: Totally.


Did you fix some things?
Simon: The approach I took was a very old fashioned approach. We recorded maybe one or two takes and maybe the odd section. When I mixed the song if I needed a better section I could take it from another take, mix and record the parts into Pro Tools where I edited the the final song together. Just like the way those old records were made. Miles David records were always made like that. Everything was like "Let's play the song from here to here." Or "Let's get some better solos". So, for example, we would play from the end of the chorus into the solo sections. So there was a bit of production in terms of that but all it is is capturing the best performance and that's my job as a producer.

What are your next plans after this tour? Will you do another electric album? Or would you like to do a completely different kind of?
Simon: Don't know. Haven't thought that far ahead yet.


Do you have plans for more tour dates with this project?
Simon: Absolutely. Actually we want to do some shows in the States, there's possibly some opportunities opening up for that. We would love to come back in the summer and do the Jazz festivals. That's what I'd love to do. North Sea Jazz Festival, Montreux and Pori. All of those, that would be great. We'll see... There's a lot of bands out there, a lot of competition, there's always too much for the audience really. So it's very tough.


But it's also difficult to get the guys together?
Simon: It's always a problem. You get a few offers in, my agent calls me, "OK, we got 5 good offers here, if we could fill those up...", "Great, what's the period?", "So and so", "OK, fine", and I call everybody up. And then it keeps changing, because we lost this gig, that gig, this festival went under, they lost a lot of money... so I have to call everybody back saying "Guys, it's gonna be a week later". It's really difficult.


So that is the reason why this tour is so short, just nine gigs?
Simon: Yes, pretty much. There were a few gigs that fell through, a couple of things that didn't make sense financially. It's a jazz tour. People don't pay very much money for seeing live music these days. That's the big problem. In fact, it's less now than it was three years ago. And that's the state of this business. People don't pay for live music. They're too busy buying cellular phones or whatever.
Dave: A lot of competition in the entertainment world.
Simon: If you think of the seventies, how many records were released back then, and you think of now, it's ridiculous.


But this tour is doing very well...
Simon: We've only played two shows but so far we've had two packed rooms. Which is great, we're very happy.
Dave: I think it's a sign.
Simon: I think it's also because we're doing something different, something new. I think you always have to do that. That's why I keep changing.


But you want to go on with this project for the next couple of months?
Simon: Absolutely. It would be wonderful, it would be lovely to play through the summer. You know the thing about a band, it always takes a tour for that band to get to the next level. I'm really happy with the way the last two gigs have gone. The way everybody is reacting, playing. Especially the way it feels right now. It doesn't matter what kind of music it is, rock'n'roll, jazz, it's really good to get those gigs under your belt because it builds something that's very solid. And every night we approach everything a little bit different. When we come off this tour we will have played nine shows, maybe a night in there that you choose to forget, you know how it is. And then we'll have a little break and come back and when we hit that stage again we'll have that intensity. That's something that's really precious, which you can't do when you're at home - too many distractions. Here we're all trapped.
Dave: It makes a big difference because here we have a packed house. Better for good.
Simon: Yes, it really does.
Dave: It's not that it's not a good time in L.A. but it's just a difference.
Simon: Europe really digs it. There's nothing else for us to do. Our mobile phones don't work for a start! So we make the best of it. Once you do that and you get home and take two weeks off, as soon as we get back together on that stage, it's gonna click. And that's an energy you can't recreate, you have to work hard for that.


So do you know yet if you want to continue working with this band you're touring with?
Oh yeah, very much so. I mean we'll probably do quite a few shows this year and I definitely want to carry on with this band, absolutely. But obviously the thing is we have a Toto commitment coming up so there's going to be a couple of years where, you know...


All the TOTO fans wanna know if there's anything in the pipeline regarding TOTO?
Simon: No, we're taking a break. We all needed a break from each other. We still need to think about what we want to do. Our record deal with Sony is over. We're just thinking about what the next step should be.

© www.simon-phillips.com
After the Vantage Point show in Aschaffenburg/Germany on January 29th 2001, Simon, Jeff and Dave took some time for a new Interview.
2001



Despite all the TOTO commitments you've found some time to do a project with Jeff Babko. What exactly can we expect from this record, how is it called and when will it be released?
It is entitled "Vantage Point" and should be released around the end of March. It is an acoustic jazz album and very different to anything I have done before.


As the album with Jeff Babko isn't really a solo album from you, what plans do you have for your next solo album? Will you use the same band again? When can we expect the new album to be released?
Yes that's right, it's not a solo album and I will be recording that later on in the year. I have to write the music first and due to the busy schedule of Toto last year I really haven't had the chance to do any writing. However I will be touring with the band this summer. Same line-up except now with Melvin Lee Davis on bass.


In April you'll come to Europe for some drum clinics, so far there are only dates for Germany. Are you planning to do clinics in other countries as well?
No. Only these German clinics. I am also doing some recording in UK and Germany around the same time.


When will we see you with a band in Europe again? After the next solo release or will you do some gigs with the project you did with Jeff Babko?
If there will be any shows, do you already know which musicians will accompany you?
Sort of answered this question before. Same band except Melvin Lee Davis on bass. Will be on tour in July. As for touring with the Phillips/Babko project there are no plans. However I would love to play a jazz club for a few nights somewhere. It would be so different.


You're very busy with your solo projects and TOTO right now. Do you still occasionally play on other artists' records and on which productions can we expect to hear you this year?
I have done very little of this lately due only to the fact of being busy with Toto and/or my solo projects. But I still love to play on other peoples records. I played on Melvin Lee Davis's solo CD last year and will be doing some more this year with other artists.
 
Very Special Thanks to Simon
The first year of the new Millennium will be a very busy year for Simon Phillips. In our new interview he gives an update on all the activities he's planning for 2000.
1999
  Interview with Simon Phillips, February 12th 1999.By Randy Allar


Simon Phillips is a drummer who has had many different facets to his career. He started at a very early age; playing and recording with his father before most students ever reach high school. His aggressive drumming style combines elements of rock, jazz, funk and Latin.

As someone who enjoys instrumental music, I discovered a drummer and writer playing with the likes of Jeff Beck and Stanley Clarke, and when I met him on a recent trip, began to realize why he is in such demand. Not only his he an amazing musician, but an interesting guy to speak with. Recently he phoned the studios of WCSB and the following is just a small portion of the conversation.


MBL: You are mixing a new record.
SP: I am, literally as we speak. I'm just ready to pop one down onto DAT right now.


MBL: All right. Now we can be a part of this. Currently, "Another Lifetime" was only available as a Japanese import. It features two bonus live tracks from an earlier release, one of which is called "Biplane To Bermuda."
SP: Yeah, it's one of those that I was skeptical if it would work live just because of the acoustic guitar and all that sort of stuff. It actually turned out to be one.


MBL: You are working with a talented band, Jeff Babco on keyboard, Melvin Davis on bass, Wendell Brooks on sax, and guitarist Andy Timmons. Your band played a drum show in which you were the headlining act along with Bill Bruford and Kenny Aronoff.
SP: It was fun. It was a little hasty. We didn't have much time to play or to get it together, and three bands with one engineer and sound console sort of made for some interesting life on stage. The trouble is they're trying to turn a hotel ballroom into a good sounding theater, and that really doesn't quite work. The key to getting a good live sound is to have an engineer who is out with you all the time. He knows the music, he knows the instruments, he knows how to get the best out of it. The guy that was engineering the show, it was the first time that he had heard any of the musicians. So it's just a matter of putting the faders up and hoping for the best.


MBL: You also have a powerful disc called "Symbiosis."
SP: It was the first one released in the states and the first one with a half-decent record company. They really got behind it, especially in Europe. They managed to get a jazz award in Germany, and I was very knocked out about that. I did pretty well with that, actually.


MBL: Your first discs were "Protocal" and "Portocal- Force Majeure." There was also a disc that few people know about, RMS.
SP: Oh, yeah, yeah. "Centennial Park," with Ray Russell and Mo Foster. There's actually another one out with Gill Evans as well. It's not called "Nothing Like The
Sun," because that was Sting, but it has something to do with the sun. I can't remember. It's RMS with Gill Evans and extra horns and stuff.

MBL: I first heard your drumming with Stanley Clarke way back when.
SP: 1979!


MBL: Was it that long ago?
SP: Yeah, we recorded it in November 1979. So I remember Thanksgiving day back in Bellingham, Washington where we recorded it. It was fun to make and with Stanley, I did quite a bit of playing in 1978 with Jeff Beck. We put a band together and went to Japan. That was when Stanley asked me to join his band back in 1979, and we did a load of touring in the states, Europe and Japan. We did "Rock, Pebbles, And Sand," as well.


MBL: You started out at a very young age.
SP: Yeah, I started pretty young.


MBL: How old were you when you did your first recording?
SP: There is a recording that I made with my dad's band when I was age six, so I still have it. I was a kid then. I actual first sort of proper record was at about age 13. It was pretty young. I was at the BBC in London.


MBL: Your first actual recording was at the age of 13. I was not even thinking of doing homework at 13!
SP: Nor was I. I never did, but playing and reading charts I did. It's pretty weird. At the time, it was perfectly normal for me, I was 13 and I was doing it. When I look back now and I see friends of mine with 12 year olds, I went on the road when I was 12. I see a kid that is 12 now and I think, "Did that really happen?" But I guess it did. I was there.


MBL: You're playing with a popular band and you on you way to Europe and Japan.
SP: We fly to Poland with TOTO and we start a European tour there. We are going all throughout France and Germany. Then we go to Japan.


MBL: Steve Lukather is a wildman. I don't know how you can stay on the road with him.
SP: Oh yeah. (Laughs) It's quite an interesting match, actually. The characters in TOTO are quite opposed to each other, but it sort of works, which is nice.


MBL: I have to ask this even though we are trying to concentrate on your career. I spoke with Mike Pocaro. Very nice, very laid back and quiet. Luke is just the opposite. He is larger than life. What is David Paich like?
SP: Ah, Dave. Dave is sort of like the catalyst. He is the one that sorts things out. He's kind of quiet. He can be loud as well at times, but really the authoritative one. It's really Dave's band. Dave and Jeff Pocaro started the band, and Dave is really the sort of anchor behind it. The way he does it is he lets us get on with it and when it all gets out of control, he steps in. He's like the big daddy.


MBL: You seem to be an English gentleman that drinks tea and walks with a cane and top hat.
SP: Yee..ee..ee..ah?!? I've been known to be, but I'm very subtle. You wouldn't know. A lot of people think that when I'm on the road, I was mild mannered and everything. Then they come to a club somewhere and there I am in the thick of it.


MBL: Do you have any favorite TOTO tunes?
SP: One of my favorite songs was the very first song I ever played with TOTO when I flew over to Los Angeles. I was on the plane from London to L.A. with a DAT player and a bag of batteries learning the stuff on the way over. The first song I sat down to play with them was "Hydra." It is actually a favorite of mine. That was a song that I fought hard to get that one on and to open with it, and everyone went with it. TOTO has written some wonderful songs.


MBL: On to your solo stuff. What is up with what you are mixing in the studio now?
SP: Well, I'm actually mixing right now live tapes that were recorded in the January/February 1998 tour with my band in Europe. It's a mixture of my last two albums, "Symbiosis" and "Another Lifetime." It's something I enjoy doing and I'm fairly technically minded and I have my own studio. It's such a shame that a lot of times you go out and play a concert, and a lot of people never get to hear it, only the people that are at the concert. There's also something about playing a song that you play night after night for a couple on months, so the songs really have a chance to develop, people's solos tend to develop. You just get a totally different performance out of the same song.


MBL: You've had a very good career. Actually it is just beginning to roll as a bandleader.
SP: Yeah, it's all finished now. I love writing music. It is really what I do when I'm off the road. I just really enjoy writing music and all different types of music. I contributed quite a bit to the new TOTO record.
If you are able to find any solo project from Simon, you will find nothing but top-notch musicianship as well as great writing and performances. He has filled the shoes of the late TOTO drummer Jeff Pocaro quite well despite how enormous a task this was. Simon's newest release, "Another Lifetime" is currently available on Magna Carta Records, but only the Japanese version as the additional tracks. The live disc which will soon be released should be every bit as good as the previous releases, and is definitely worth a listen.

Thanks Randy.  
2000


Basically, what I'm doing at the moment is getting back into production. I have a couple of projects that I'm working on right now, more from a producer's point of view. This is something that I haven't done for a long time. Now, I'm ready to go back into that part of music I really enjoy, which is engineering and producing. Also, on top of that, my straight-ahead jazz project called, Vantage Point, is being released in the U.S. on September


When is your next tour and with whom?
It will be a solo tour with Vantage Point sometime in the next few months. However, there is some interest to take my electric band to Japan and possibly Europe.


In addition to your main kit, you also use smaller kits for your various projects. How do you determine which kit to use in each situation?
For rock, pop, fusion or anything based around contemporary music, I use my regular set up. That's what I consider my instrument. However, with certain situations, like straight-ahead acoustic jazz, it's a whole different ball game. It requires a whole different outlook and preparation. That's when I change my drum kit. I use a pretty radically different kit; I use four tom toms, one kick, and one snare drum. I also use a single pedal. The rack toms I use are a 12-inch and a 13-inch. The floor toms are a 14X14 and a 16X16. The bass drums are very traditional sizes. I choose from either a 14X22 or a 14X18. It goes back to a traditional drum kit.


Your Gladiator signature snare is your main snare along with your Pageant signature as your side snare. Do you use any other Tama snare drums?
A lot of the times, when I'm recording, I will use a different snare for almost every track. One of my favorite snare drums is the Tama metal 5 1/2X10 (PF15510). That is one of the nicest sounding drums and it records amazingly well. I also use 5X14 and 6.5X14 maple snares.
 
I'd been using wooden shell snare drums since 1977. Around the time that we were designing the Gladiator, I started using the PB355 bronze snare. I don't know what happened. There I was, using a bronze snare with triple flanged hoops that I hadn't used in years. That's when I decided to change to the bronze for my main snare. If you are going to make a signature snare drum, I feel that you should have one that can be used for everything. I suddenly realized everything that I was doing. I was playing everything from jazz to fusion to rock and roll to heavy metal. I used the same snare drum and everyone loved it. That's when I realized that the Gladiator would make a great signature snare drum.


How do you approach recording your 11-pc Starclassic maple drum set? Do you already know what sound you are looking for or do you have to experiment to get the sound that you are looking for?
My drum set really sounds the way it does. It's sort of an inherit drum kit sound which is basically the way I sound on a drum kit. All I am trying to do is capture the natural sound of my kit. When people ask me to play on their albums, this is the sound that they want, the Simon Phillips signature sound.


You use a Tama drum rack. Why did you choose a rack over conventional hardware?
This goes back to 1989. I had been using conventional hardware all the way up until then. For me, one of the big problems that I had using conventional hardware was the amount of space it took up and the fact that it would never set up the same way twice. I first started putting a rack together when I was touring with the Who back in 1989. Once I started using this rack, every night was the same. It was amazing. I'd never done a tour where I could just sit down and play without worrying about the set up. It's even gone beyond my own expectations!


You tilt your hi-hat stand towards you. How does that benefit your playing?
To have the hi hat stand perfectly straight would mean that my first tom tom would have to be further away, which would be more of a stretch. That was the deciding factor for me tilting the hi hat stand. As a by-product of this, I found that because I use my left hand positioned lower, I find it easier to play.


What records have inspired you lately?
Macy Gray's album, Meshell N'Degeocello's first two albums, and the first Brecker Brothers album.


Would you like to add anything in closing?
I have so much confidence in Tama equipment. I must say, I think that the Starclassic drums are probably among the best innovations ever in drums. I think that Tama has done an incredible job!

Copyright © by Tama 2000
Simon, I know that you recently returned from Europe performing drum clinics and touring with Toto. Can you tell us about your next musical projects?
1999

What's the motivation of releasing a live album to you? Do you see it as a special treat for the fans or is it something that's important to you personally?
Both. I think it is a shame that some of the best playing is only heard by the few hundred people at a gig and not by a wider audience. Also, as we play the music every night, the band gets tighter and we play the songs better and better. It is almost as though the studio record is the blue print of the song and the live version is the finished result. Musicians play better in front of an audience anyway.


How did you decide which songs were going to make it on this record?
That was hard but mostly it was based upon what wasn't on my previous live CD "Force Majeure" and then down to the individual performance. I had ten shows to pick each song from - the first requirement being audio quality. Sometimes you just get a show that sounded awful due to the acoustics of the venue. From there it is down to the performance as a whole and a fine balance between that and good audio quality.


Wasn't it difficult with all the TOTO commitments to find time to work on the live album? Did you have to edit many things or is it pretty much the material as you recorded it?
As it turned out it was difficult schedule wise as Mindfields took longer than we had anticipated - I just worked long hours. I did a couple of edits but for the most part the take is as it was recorded with a few repairs. Again it is finding a fine balance between mistakes and vibe. I probably worked too hard on it - but that's just me!


The album runs approximately 60 minutes, so there would have been space for some more songs. Is there a special reason why you didn't use up the space? Was it ever an option to you to even release a double CD with a complete concert?
That is more of a request by the record company but I have to say I think records are too long these days - I think an hour is quite enough. Also it would have taken much longer to have more material and therefore the cost of the production goes up etc. etc. There is a limit - and I am not working with Toto style budgets here. I would have liked to have put on a couple of other songs but I ran out of time.


When will the fans have a chance to see you on stage again as a solo artist?
I am writing material for a new album now and will hopefully record it end of this year/beginning of next. I would like to release it in spring 2000 and tour in the summer and fall.


Do you have any plans for a new studio album yet?
If so, when will it happen and will it be with the same band that you've been working with for the past few years?
 
I answered that already without looking at this question - should be the same band with Melvin Lee Davis on Bass - if everyone is available!

© The ninetynine Toto Homepage
Back in 1999 Simon answered some questions regarding the release of his live album "Out of the blue".
1998


Now that the new album is nearly finished, what is the main difference for you between "Mindfields" and "Tambu" which was your first recording with the band? Is it the fact that Bobby is back, is it a different style or something else?
Everything about it is different. We took much longer to make this record. The writing process started earlier and we rehearsed and did more writing sessions. I am more involved in the making of this album Ñ in fact we split duties Ñ Dave and I would work on one song (vocals Ñ overdubs) with Steve Macmillan (pro tools engineer) and Mike and Luke would work with Elliot Scheiner on another song. In other words Ñ the true definition of the word Ñ co-production.
The music is different as well and having Bobby back gives our sound that something special Ñ more like original TOTO but present day style.


Have you already decided which songs will make it on the record? Are there 2 or 3 specific songs which you like most and if so, why? Can you name some titles?
We can only agree to have all the tracks on the record Ñ nobody wants to leave anything off but we will hold back 1 as the record company requires us to have a bonus track in certain territories.
Yes Ñ I do have my favourites Ñ "Mindfields", "Melanie", "One Road", "Caught In The Balance" Ñ however we have not finished yet Ñ still have 3 more to mix and 2 more lead vocals Ñ things can change!!!


Do you already know which song will be the first single? Will it rather be a ballad or a faster track?
No Ñ we have not agreed on that Ñ we would like our record co to listen and give suggestions as well as input from other people.


Which guest musicians are playing/singing on "Mindfields"?
Lenny Castro, Clint Black, Richard Page, Chris Thompson, Mark Hudson, Timothy Schmit, Phil Soussan, Maria Vidal Ñ I think that's it!!!


Will David Paich sing lead vocals on a song (or even on more than one song) like requested by so many fans, and if so, what's the song called?
Maybe Ñ it is a surprise!!!!
Do you already know what the line-up will be for the next tour? We've heard that Jenny and John won't be with you this time. Lots of people are speculating about a sax player like Warren Ham.
 
We haven't confirmed our line up yet. Warren will not be doing it.

© The ninetynine Toto Homepage
With the upcoming album "Mindfields" almost being finished, Simon took the time to answer some questions about the new recording
1998



They're all different. Generally they will start on the keyboard, not the drum kit. And they usually start out with some sequence of a few chords which are very close to melody. It's all different. Some will start with a little sequence of chords which will be very melody related but will be the sort of basis of the song. Let's say "Out Of The Blue" started off with literally those chords and that is the melody [hums]. That's exactly where that started from. "Kumi Na Moja" however started off with a sequencer part which turned into an acoustic guitar part which then was sampled, but it started off with setting up a delay. You just stumble across a sound, you set up a delay and [hums]... and I didn't even know what time it was in, it just felt good, I worked it out, "Oh, it's 11, OK". So I set the sequencer up, get it clicking away, and put it in and then... melody, straight away. On top of that.

Some of it goes from melody first. It's hard to say, you know, everyone is different. And very occasionally I might be playing the drums and come up with something and then run in or record a little bit and put it down. "Jungleyes" for example was something I knew what I wanted to do, I had a concept, but I really didn't have any music yet. So when I went over to Ray's house in London I said "OK, I want to do a Drum and Bass/Jungle thing." That sort of thing. He went "OK". So we went through a load of CD ROMs, listened to a load of Drum and Bass rhythms until we got a good tempo and a good feel which is actually different to what we ended up with. It's a real metamorphosis but it started off with me telling Ray the whole concept, I said "This is how it basically is, real fast drums, real slow moving but really cool adult chords, complex harmony with lots of space." And I sang him an idea, but I really wanted him to lead the way on that one. I had the concept but I wanted him to sort of feed the composition. So "OK. What do you mean, like this..." [hums] It started coming up like that, so... we put that in the sequencer and then we started coming up with the melody The verse is basically Ray's. That's his thing. Then it came to the bridge and that's my section [hums]. Like this you know. Then we had enough of it down, like a sort of sketch, and then I took it back to L.A., transferred it over to my software and then just worked on it for the next few days. There's quite a lot of intricate arranging going on as well. That's "Jungleyes", you know.


You finish a song before you go into the studio, so you have a clear concept of what the musicians should play...
I have a whole demo done...


Or do they add some parts?
Well, yeah,... What I like do to... I like to get a full demo, I do a whole arrangement and then I go out and play a drum track. And then I start working at what I'm gonna play on the drums. And sometimes that changes because a lot of it starts off on the machine and then I'm learning how to play these songs. I haven't actually really played the drums to them. I may have nipped out and tried a few things, "OK, that'll do", but then I come in to listen, I go "It's not really working", and I love the music but I don't like the drum part yet. And the whole beginning of "Jungleyes" was wrong like for a long time, for a few days, you know, two or three days, it was like "What is wrong with that". And the mistake I was making was, I was forcing something to be there that the machine was doing. And it can never really be like that. So I just said to myself "Listen, why don't you approach it as if it were someone else's session and here's the music, what would you play?" I sat down and I had the whole track - guitar, bass, keyboards - in the headphones and just listened to it and slowly pieced together a drum part, and that's how the groove came.
 


So you compose a lot with the sequencer...
I have to, because I can't write straight to manuscript, I was never taught, so I don't know any theory.


And you program all the instruments...
All the instruments, all the parts, the bass part... the bass parts are very intricate and specific And then what I do is I give the demo to a copyist and he then transcribes it and writes out a Bass chart, a Master rhythm chart, a transposed horn chart, Guitar chart, depending how complex the chart is and then... we then go into rehearsals. It's then up to everybody... they hear the demo, a lot of it they have to get around, it's not easy, it's like "Hang on a minute, right, OK", you know, and it takes a little while to get it together, and then, as they get a hold if it, they start to make it their own, you see what I mean. And I want them to do that. I say "This is how my demo is, that's how I envisage it. Now it's up to you to take it and improve on it. I'm not a bass player, I'm a drummer. That's my idea for the bass and some of the notes are very important as is the groove, but I'm sure you can do a lot better than I can do". And of course they can, because it's their instrument. Same with Andy, and same with Ray, same with Jeff. But some of it is very... I mean as you hear on the gig and you hear the record, some of it is very close, it never changed from my original demo. You know like the bridge in "Eyes Blue For You", that's exactly as it's written, every single thing [hums].


So you kept it exactly as it was written...
Yeah, but there are other parts, which are looser, where I say "Do something, I'm not really married to that section, make it a bit more organic". The trouble is with machines, you have the limit of me, I'm not a keyboard player, so they are all very straight keyboard parts, you know, it's only what I put in. So it's limited by my limitation of playing those instruments. So it needs everybody then to take it to the next step.


It's amazing how "alive" it sounds. You wouldn't think it started out as programming...
Right, right... Yeah but you know, programming is... I think people really get... I think because on MTV and on the radio, we hear a lot of programmed music. But that's just because it's bad production. And it's because people let the machine rule them, you know.. There's a lot of stuff I've done using machine and people think it's real drums. But it took me two days to do one track, where I could have played the track in ten minutes. That's the difference.


If you had played on it...
Yeah. You know it's the limit of... really... the user. The computer just does what you tell it, you know. But MIDI information, it is a bit strange. It does water it down somehow. It's very hard to know exactly how or why. For example on "Eyes Blue For You", I had an S770 with a Fender Rhodes sample. It's a damn good sample and I'm playing it, so it's not got a lot of dynamics, it just sounds a bit... you know... but it sounds like a Fender Rhodes and people go "Oh yeah". But then when you hear Jeff play the Fender Rhodes it's a totally different instrument. It suddenly has body, movement, feel and fluidity and...you know..
[Jeff] Bad time...
[Simon laughs] Good time, good time! You know, so that's why I love real instruments.


Is there a difference between writing instrumental songs and songs with lyrics?
Oh, very much so. Yeah. Your basic difference is that a voice is limited in terms of range. Probably two octaves.
[To Jeff] Would you say a good voice is about two octaves?
[Jeff] Depends...
[To Jeff] A good, real good singer...
[Jeff] Well... To be in the element of what sounds good for that particular singer actually, the range is very limited. You start going outside and then it sounds thinner...
 
I would say a couple of octaves you got really to use. An instrument - five octaves! Maybe more, depending on the instrument. So there you go, for a start you got a whole different thing. You can do melodically much bigger jumps. With a voice it sounds stupid [hums], you know. But on the guitar it sounds great, listen to "Eyes Blue For You" [hums]. You know... So that's... to start with that's your big difference. The other difference is with vocal music, harmonically, it can be so much simpler, you know. One chord if you want, maybe three changes. And the melody almost can be one note or two notes. Yet it can be a great song because it's the lyrics and the way it's sung, you know. Look "Africa" [hums]... It's only four notes I've used so far. You see what I mean. It's a whole different thing. If you try to do that instrumentally and... I think it really just is a bit lame. Not in all cases. Listen to "The Pump" [hums]... But we wrote that really very much as a very simple, bluesy kind of thing. And the melody is incredibly simple. But harmonically it's very intricate. When you get to the bridge and the chorus, there's a lot of passing chords [hums]... You see what I mean. So... but nine times out of ten I think there's a lot of people, lot of guitar... solo guitar heroes, whatever, doing instrumental music and it's... it's pretty plane and ordinary. And I think personally it's real boring. You know... So... And I'm not a guitarist either, so... I want it to be a musical event, so I tend to just really get experimental in terms of the musicality of it. You know, harmonically. Oh, yes, there's a huge difference... huge difference.


So you have a lot of freedom in composing when you're writing instrumental songs. If you contribute to a Toto song, which has lyrics and vocals, you must be very limited...
Yes and no. Take the song "Slipped Away", basically I did the whole chorus section on that. And harmonically it's quite interesting the way it goes. It's a little bit odd. It's more of a Peter Gabriel thing, more of a chant thing. But it works. And the verse is... Luke came up with that [hums] ... that's pretty simple. It is very different and it's easier for me really to write instrumental music because I don't sing. And when I start writing vocal music I can get so far, but I really need someone who will come up with some words or can sing along with it. So it's more difficult. But I actually really enjoy it as well. It's a very different hat.


I was wondering when I listened to your songs... how do you come up with the titles for your songs? There's some really weird titles like "Starfish Spaghetti"...
That's right...


I listened to the song and I thought "How's this music related to that title?
Yeah... Well... I mean there's two things to that. I think a lot of instrumental music has terrible titles. And I really try to make something of it. But that's also the other difficult thing. Without lyrics you don't really have a storyline, you know. So it's almost really silly calling something... an instrumental song giving it a title... really. But there again, you sort of have to. So, often, I'm still using a working title. I guess sometimes just certain things... just have something, and I do try... you know when I write, I don't write at all politically, at all. It's nothing to do with, really, what's going on, it's just purely music. But sometimes like for example "Jungleyes" was really to do with using a jungle rhythm, drum and bass rhythm. And I just sort of thought... I don't know where "Jungleyes" came from, but I thought it was actually quite a nice title... "Jungleyes", so it sort of made sense. "Eyes Blue For You" is Ray's title, he often uses the double entendre, you know. Ah... "Kumi Na Moja"... I had a...
[To Jeff] What was it called before?
[Jeff] "Eleven8"
Yeah, I didn't know what to call it, so I just called it "Eleven8", you know. I just saved it as a file - the word Eleven and the figure 8. And I didn't know really what to call it and I was looking through dictionaries, books, I was trying to get some sort of... "What is this about?". And my girlfriend, she can speak Swahili, so she said "Why don't you call it Eleven8 in Swahili, Kumi Na Moja?" I said "That's beautiful, that sounds great, Kumi Na Moja." That's a great sounding title.


And it fits to the song...
Yeah, you know. It's ten and one. Or one and ten, something like that. So, that's it. Kumi Na Moja. And it's a lovely title. And I wrote it on top of the chart and everybody seemed to go "Oh yeah, that's cool, what does it mean?" "Mountain High" was just like "Think of a song, what's romantic, what does it sound like?" Sounds like flying over some hills, great, "Mountain High", it's a ski resort where we go skiing sometimes. You know... It's probably not my strongest point, but when I get a record together I really like to try and get some decent titles because a lot of instrumental songs, a lot of instrumental albums have terrible, terrible naive titles...
[Jeff] The worst
And Ray just has some... He has a very strange sense of humour, so he comes up with these weird titles which I love, you know, just because it's Ray, I suppose. And the whole thing about "Symbiosis", which I really liked the idea of that word...


How did you come up with the idea of using a third bass drum?
Well... Because the sort of sounds that are used in drums and bass, drum machine or samples/loops, it was more in keeping with that style to use a different bass drum sound.
I went over to Dave Weckl's house last year to install Shure a bass drum mic for him in the same way that I do it and he had just added an 18 inch bass drum to his kit. I had never played an 18" before and I really loved it - I thought the sound was just wonderful. I loved the sound but thought that there was no way for me to use it until I was writing "Jungleyes" and I was starting to record the demo and I thought "This would be cool if the opening groove was played on a little bass drum and a little snare drum" - a second kit - if you will. It worked out so after hours of figuring out how to connect the 18" physically to the kit so I could actually play it I used it on the record and as a result I feel I have to use it live.


But now that you've tied the third bass drum to your kit, you intend to keep it there, I guess...
Pretty much, yeah, I think so. I mean I don't know... Depends, if I use it on the Toto record, if for any reason, then it'll be there. If I don't, then maybe I won't have it then.


You said once that you think that the band is constantly improving during the tour. How do you feel this or notice it? Is it like jumps or is it like a flow?
What tends to happen is the first few shows, everybody's still getting it together and still learning, there's still a few mistakes. And then sometimes it's a bit rough and everybody has a bad night and you just have to sit down and talk about it a little bit. And then things sort of iron themselves out and they get better and better and better. But then it gets hard to keep it up there. You have a string of good shows and then you have a show where everybody's down on energy or whatever. And then you get a situation where the consistency is very good and even if one or two people are not having a great night you can actually make it work. The band will pull through because it's got a lot of experience and everybody else sort of helps carry it. And even when people feel not so good, they're almost gonna play better anyway, because they're just used to doing it. It's very rare when you get a bad night when everybody just has a bad night. Usually what happens is, what's happened recently, we got very tired. We did ten shows in a row. The shows throughout that ten were remarkable. Maybe the last show got a little bit tired. And tonight, it was OK, but the thing is, the standard is pretty high now, the consistency is pretty high, so you sort of run a little bit on automatic but maybe you don't enjoy it as much. So, it's interesting how a band goes through phases, you know. It gets better and better and then it just gets to a consistent level and it's a question of whether it was a great gig and you really enjoyed it or it was just an OK gig which was a very good gig but we all know that it could have been a better night. But not every night can be fantastic, even feelingwise. It's hard to play the same thing night after night.


What do you do if you feel it's not a great night or you don't feel well? Can you sort of disguise this?
As a professional musician, absolutely, yeah. Just like an actor could, just like as a newsreader can, yeah. I mean, that's part of your profession that gets you through that. Because what you do, there's a lot of things you can fall back to. Let's say tonight, we had a day off yesterday, I was very, very tired the night before and my back was hurting and I felt run down. The day off was great and tonight I was a little bit stiff, it was the "Day off syndrome". And I felt "OK, tonight's gonna be a little tricky if I try to do tricky things". So I actually just decided to play a little simpler tonight and just concentrate on the groove and not get bugged about the sound as the sound was real strange tonight. Try just not to let it affect you, just play through it. So you sort of fall back on your experience, really. That's what it is.


Do you already have plans for your next solo album?
No, the only plans I have is for a live album which is why I am recording all these shows or most of these shows. That's really what I'm going to be doing, wading through all the tapes, finding the best takes and start to put it together, if there's any mistakes, correct those and then start mixing it. But that's the only plan for a solo record, but really now I'm going to give it a rest and concentrate musically on Toto in terms of composition.


So do you know yet if you want to continue working with this band you're touring with?
Oh yeah, very much so. I mean we'll probably do quite a few shows this year and I definitely want to carry on with this band, absolutely. But obviously the thing is we have a Toto commitment coming up so there's going to be a couple of years where, you know...


Same things with Los Lobotomys...
Yeah, it's gonna be like that and all these guys are gonna start doing different things and I hope that at the end of it we can all get back together again and play. I think that'll depend on what Andy's going to do as he's pursuing his own solo project now. I just hope that when the time comes everybody's available to do it. You know, I don't want to lose this band, definitely not.


What's the difference if you play with Toto or Lobotomys or this band?
Well, different music. It's very, very different music, three different entities, you know, different people. This is my solo project, so it's very close to me. Toto is my band project which is... you know, that's another thing, it's a whole different arena. That's sharing it with three other people, there's a lot more diplomacy involved, democratic decisions, it's a different thing. Lobotomys... we haven't really done anything for a while, so I don't know really where that stands right now. You know, sometimes we play together in Los Angeles and we probably will do that for fun... They did a show without me recently, Gregg played with them at the Baked Potato and probably what will happen is that there'll be a gig that we will do in Los Angeles and we'll just get together and play for fun. And we'll probably have a great time and we'll think "Hey, maybe we should start thinking about doing something", you know. That's usually how it happens. But right now I don't know will happen.


We've talked about how you write songs for your own albums. How is it if your write for a Toto song? I guess you don't make a full demo or something like that...
No, it's a little more sketchy. What I do is, I work on ideas on my own or maybe with Mike and record it into a sequencer, and then, when everybody comes around for a writing session I play what I have and they listen to it and they go "Not mad about that", "Really like that", "That's great, let's use that", and we go on from there. This new record, I think we might do some different things. I know that Luke and I want to get together and do some writing together. I know that I want to get together with David and do some stuff as I never really got together with David on his own, so I think there's some cool stuff that we could do. And we will probably also do some writing when all four of us turn up, either in Luke's studio or my studio, and we'll just play and see what happens. With this Toto record we're going to write a lot of songs so there'll be many different ways that those songs will come about. So, it's experimental, really.


So do you already have sort of a concept for the new album or is it just whatever comes to mind?
I don't, I know Luke has quite a few songs. I would imagine Dave has probably a few songs. I have a couple of things, a couple of ideas but I haven't really sat down and thought about it yet. I have some ideas that I want to introduce to the band, stylistically, which are pretty radical but I'm not quite sure what they are yet. They're sort of there and that's the best way to start, you know.


So you're gonna work on them as soon as you get home from this tour?
Yeah. I'm going to be writing some music with Ray Russell for some film music, so that's actually the first thing, but once that's done I should be back into writing mode and starting to think about songs, really, just writing songs and thinking about lyrics and getting maybe some lyric writers to write some stuff.


But there's no date yet for the release of this record?
No date at all.
Do you exercise to be fit to play the drums, because I mean it must be really physically demanding playing drums, especially on tour every night for two hours...
[Simon yawns]
[Laughter]


Timing...timing...
Yeah, I mean when we're on tour, I do a lot of stretching exercises just because playing that drum kit is quite tough going and it puts a lot of stress on my body, I have to stretch. But in terms of when I'm at home I'm not very good about it, no, I don't.


And you don't need it? You always have enough strength and power?
I get the strength by playing. When I start the tour, I need to work up to it, you know. Like the beginning of this tour, I was like [gasps] after a few songs, whereas now it's not quite as bad as that and you build strength purely by playing. But I tend to not do anything special working out wise. I find it's a whole different set of muscles anyway, so... I don't know. I'm not very good at that.


When you're at home, do you play everyday?
No... No, I don't. Maybe a week goes by and I don't play. It depends what I'm doing. If I'm writing music I don't play very often. If I'm doing other stuff, then I don't play. I mean it's difficult to find time. And a lot of times you're doing business, you're on the phone all day and I'd love to go play, but it's seven o'clock in the evening and I'm hungry and I haven't played drums yet, and I wanted to play at ten in the morning, you know. It's just... that's how the day goes sometimes which is... I guess it's down to discipline, really.


Are you still doing sessions or are you too busy with your other projects?
I haven't done many sessions at all. I did an album with a guy called John Sykes just before Christmas and a couple of projects but very little, because I've been concentrating so much on this project that I just haven't the time to do other things.


And do you want to go back to doing sessions or is this a part of your life that's behind you?
Oh... I don't really want do it the way I used to but I do enjoy doing sessions occasionally. I mean it's quite interesting, it's really lovely to be living in Los Angeles or living wherever you are and going to a studio for some hours, playing and then coming back home. I mean it seems now, at the moment, I have to go on a plane and spend two months in a country or a few countries to play music. Whereas when I'm at home... you see what I mean... so it's actually really nice to get up and go "Wow, time for a session", I'll have some breakfast, I'll get in the car, I'll go to Capitol or wherever...


Like everybody's going to work...
Yeah, it's actually... I really love it and in a way I would quite like to do a bit more of that but still... you know, I'm very fortunate to be able to play in a band ... going on the road and playing music like this...


So that's what you really want to do, be in a band...
Oh yeah. I've been like that for a very long time, it's just it hasn't been like that. But that's my... to me, it's always been my goal, just it didn't really happen until very late.


So for you it's was no difficult decision to go to Los Angeles and jump in to Toto...
No... Well I was going to Los Angeles anyway, I had made that choice separately, because I just had it up to here with England, I was also going through a divorce, so I really didn't want to stay in England. So I was going to move to L.A. anyway, it's just that I didn't know what I was going to do when I got there, you know. And the fact that Toto coincided with that made a lot more sense. But in in terms of joining Toto, it wasn't a difficult decision at all, it was a very easy decision. It was great, you know.


When you're playing your own music and when you're playing Toto music it's pretty different styles of music...
Yes...


So what kind of music do you listen to, what's your favorite kind of music?
Wow!... Hm... It's weird because right now I would probably actually get off much more listening to some songs. You know, listening to like more of a pop thing or rock thing. Only because we're playing this all the time. I'm just interested in lots of things though, you know. Whatever anybody brings up and puts on I'm there, ready to listen to it. But it's funny that sometimes I don't really have enough time to listen to music. I wish I could, you know. But I would say it's probably different music to the one I'm playing.


Really?
Yeah. Oh yeah, always. I think I've always been like that. At the beginning of this tour, I'm more sort of zoned in to playing this music but then, when we play it every night, I want to listen to something else.


But generally the music you're doing is the one you like or you'd like to hear from other people?
Oh, no, I like to hear all sorts of things and I like to play all sorts of music. You know, it's very refreshing to me after doing this to go back to Toto and hear a voice. Or even something else, not even Toto, you know, doing a session, it's actually a breath of fresh air, it's like "Oh wow!" When playing this music, sometimes I feel the pressure to play the way I play. Sometimes there's a lot of pressure on that. Sometimes I'd really like to just sit down and [makes a monotone drumming gesture]... you know... It's weird... it's very weird.


So you easily adapt to different styles of music...
Yeah. Oh yes, very naturally, yeah.


It doesn't matter to you what kind of music you're actually playing...
No, as long as it's real and as long as it's good... I mean, if it's really just not very good then I'm not very interested in it. But as long as it's got... you know, some heart, then it's great, yeah.


What else do you like besides music? Do you have any other hobbies?
Do you still do car racing?
Well, I'm still very much into it. I haven't raced a car since I left England. Because... two reasons really... or three... It's a little bit harder in the States. I've not really met... or been involved in that sort of scene in the States. It's very expensive. And since I left England and getting divorced and everything I've sort of been spending most of my time trying to sort of get back out of that situation.
However, I've done some go cart, no racing, but I've been driving go carts and that I enjoy a lot. Myself and Dave Weckl sometimes go to a place called "Riverside" where there's a great cart track and we go and do a lapping day. I'm still very into it, I mean I video all the Grand Prix. And I'm still watching it and I still read a lot about it. I get this magazine called "Autosport", an English magazine, I get it sent to the States. So I'm pretty up-to-date with what's going on. Been out of date right now, but...


So your big dream is driving a Williams?
Yeah [laughs]. Oh, I mean I absolutely one day would love to drive a formula 3 car, let alone a formula 1. Because I'm realistic enough to know that it's actually very difficult driving a formula 1 car. And you need to work up to it. There is however a place in France which has the old AGS formula 1 car. And you can go over there, it costs quite a lot of money, but you go there, they stick you in a formula Vauxhall Lotus (Opel in Germany) which is a two litre engine, wings and slicks. So you get used to driving a racing car to start with if you've never driven one before. And you also get to learn the circuit and get used to the speed a little bit and how to drive, because a racing car is very different. And then if they're satisfied with you they let you out in the AGS formula 1 car which they tune slightly different, the electronic management is... it's all tampered down a bit because... I mean... you wouldn't be able to drive a formula 1 car. You'd be off for the first corner because you have to drive them very aggressively and there's no way you'd be able to because you'd be going [clings to an imaginary steering wheel and puts on a frightened look] "Huh", like that, you know. So, it's very hard, even for any of these guys to sit into a Formula Ford 1600 and they'd be going "Bloody Hell". I mean if I got into a Formula Ford 1600 now, not having driven one for a long time, it would take me a few laps to get back into it, maybe a whole day. Because it's like "Wow! This really feels fast" and you'd be braking way early and driving too slowly around the corners but at least I remember what it was like and I'd be able to get back up there probably.


So you did that very often when you lived in England?
When I could, wasn't that often, but I owned my own car, it was run by a very professional team which is now called the Super Nova team which runs Formula 3000 cars. They won the Formula 3000 championship last year. So I had great mechanics. The team manager, David Sears is a racing driver himself, so I had the benefit of great guidance, great tutoring and everything. And I drove when I could. It wasn't as often as I would have liked because of my schedule. And you have to be very serious about it. The thing about it... because basically it's a dangerous pastime you have to be very serious about it. You can't just go in "Haha", put the visor down, "Ha, great fun!", no you have to really get serious about it because if you do mess up it can cost you very dearly. And playing drums for me is very important. And I've had one bad accident and I was very lucky. So, you really have to be very very clearheaded and know when to stop. But as you can see I'm very into it, I talk more about it than drumming.


So is there anything else you like or do you spend all your time with music?
Ah, right now... I mean I have a lovely girlfriend, so any time outside of music I spend with her. But there's nothing really specific that I'm doing at the moment outside of music and the only thing is maybe going to a motor race or going to see a movie or something like that. You know, I have put a lot of time and energy into this project over the last two years so there really hasn't been time left over for doing much else... Sleeping... That's about it.


When you get time for it...
Yes...


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How do you start writing a song? Do you start out with a drum pattern in your head or do you start with a melody?